Confused about where to start when renovating?

Learn from Louise and Zane as they share their first steps when renovating their Melbourne home.

Listen to the episode now.

Hello! This is Episode 317, and if you’re yet to get started on your renovation or new build, or taking your very first steps, I know this is going to be super helpful for you.

In it, you’re going to meet Louise and Zane. They are at the very beginning of their project: the renovation of a 100 year old Californian Bungalow in Melbourne.

LISTEN TO THE EPISODE NOW.

When I put the call out to HOME Method members about coming on the podcast, I also asked if members would like to come on to share their progress as it develops. And, that we would treat the podcast episode conversations as part sharing, part coaching. 

So, what that means is they come on to the podcast to discuss their project’s progress with me and share the things they’re doing, decisions they’re making, and challenges they’re having. And I offer suggestions, provide guidance and sometimes, just sometimes, deliver challenging feedback or reality checks. 

I’m really looking forward to introducing Louise and Zane to you, because I know this stage of a project – the very beginning – is something that EVERYONE has to go through. 

So this episode provides a great opportunity to gain insights into important steps to take at this point, and I believe you’ll resonate with much of what Louise and Zane are thinking about and mulling over as they dive into their project.

Now, let’s dive in!

This is the transcript of my conversation with Louise and Zane about where to start when renovating their Melbourne home …

Amelia Lee
Well, Louise and Zane, I’m really excited to be speaking with you, because you are very new in your project experience, really, you’re just starting out. And it’s a really great opportunity for us to have a chat about how you’re commencing your project, what do those steps look like? What are you experiencing? And then I’m hoping we’ll be able to check in with you as your project travels, for us to be able to see the progress that you’re making and the learnings that you’re having along the way, and how HOME Method is supporting you, of course, as well, and really seeing how your project journey and the experience of it is working out for you.  

So before we dive into the nuts and bolts of our questions, I’d love it if you could just take a minute to share with us who’s this project for? Like, who is going to be living in this home, and who’s in your family? And what are you envisaging in terms of how that might change in the future, or if it won’t? A little bit of a background about that.

Zane
So the home is for our family. So for context, we’re in Melbourne’s southeast suburbs, we’re not too far from the bay, but we’re not on the water. And we’ve probably lived within five kilometres in our last three homes. So that progression from apartment to semi detached home to freestanding home. So I don’t personally love the term forever home, this is probably just more the idea of this is a significant home because our kids, we’ve got a daughter and a son who are nine and seven so grade four and grade two, this is really the home that they will grow in. So for us, home is really important in terms of that safe space.  

I know through HOME Method, we often talk about the kind of vessel for memories, and I think that resonated really strongly for us because, at the moment, they’ve just got their own rooms. But they’re starting that whole journey of eventually finishing primary, moving into secondary, and we want the house to be a place that they feel comfortable and safe in but equally that they invite people to. We are, in many ways, trying to create a space that is a bit of a magnet for our community to come to and, over time, that the kids feel like this is the place that people should come to, as opposed to them disappearing.

Louise
Yeah, and making sure that the home grows with us over that time period. So the home that we need now, when the kids are seven and nine is probably quite different to the home we’re going to need when they’re 17 and 19 or 24. And knowing house prices, they’ll probably be at home until then.

Amelia Lee
Hopefully not 36 and 38.

Louise
It needs to serve us through all of those years, yeah.

Amelia Lee
Yeah, and what you’re saying I’m sure will resonate with so many who are hearing and watching this because that I feel is what a lot of people in the Undercover Architect community are wanting to create. And that idea of having a place where their family can feel like it’s a zone to come together, they can comfortably have friends over, that you as parents can be watching, getting to know your kids’ friends, them feeling like they’ve got some independence and privacy from you, that you’re not helicoptering over them, but at the same time, they’re not out in a park or wandering around somewhere.  

So I think that that’s a really common theme with lots of people in the Undercover Architect community. So I really love that you mentioned that and the idea of the home being a vessel for memories is something that we talk about a lot, isn’t it? So it’s lovely. And I’d love for you to talk a bit more about what you’re actually planning and wanting to do. Because obviously, there’s lots of different ways that you could package that up. If you can tell us a little bit about the existing house, because you’re planning a renovation, and then what are your thoughts in terms of what you would like to do to the home in order to create that kind of environment for you and your family?

Louise
So the existing house is a 100 year old California bungalow. So it has been renovated, looks like it was renovated probably in the early 2000s or 2010s. So it’s certainly comfortable. It’s a three bedroom home, a typical California bungalow. The kitchen is right in the middle of the house at the moment, so not very functional from that perspective for modern living. It’s a pretty big block for our area, it’s about 750 square metres. So that’s what originally drew us to love this house. So not only the period features, because we love California bungalows, but the big block and the fact that it’s got a north facing rear.  

We bought the house with the view that we would always renovate it, and so those were the key factors, I guess, that we were looking for when we were searching for somewhere to buy. And in terms of what we’re planning on doing, we’re wanting to retain as much of the period features as is practical as we can. But wanting to also modernise, particularly the back part of the house, the living part of the house. And we’re undecided yet whether we want to go up or push out. We’d like to retain as much of the size of the backyard as possible, so that would lean towards going up. But then that’s a much bigger cost, so we have to weigh that up. But wanting to push the living area out to a indoor outdoor, nice flow, and pull the kitchen out of the middle of the house, and potentially have the kids either upstairs or in that front part of the house where the living area isn’t, and add a pool hopefully, if the budget extends to allowing us to do that.

Zane
We love the garden, we’re really lucky that the people who previously… I think of a 100 years, there has only ever been two families that have been in the place. So the previous owners, real green thumbs. Besides one tree, which is now gone, it’s 100% natives, and the trees are really well established. So we want to maintain that ability. 

At the moment, I feel like the house maybe is a bit overshadowed by the garden. So in some ways, we want to pare that back and let the house jump to the front. A good example is, right now, Lou and I are in our dining room, which is our working from home space. And we’re sharing that since we decided to give the kids their own rooms, so that kind of room Tetris is taking place. And I think one of the things we’re aspiring to is having intentional spaces that every room has a reason to be, and that they’re all utilised well. So yes, we’ve got a reasonable land size, but I did enjoy learning more about spaciousness, but also compact homes, and that you utilise your home really well.  And that’s probably an ambition too, but at the moment, we’re beginning to be on top of each other. And as I said, what was the Christmas table is now a study for two. So some of those things we leave and not fix because they motivate you to get on with the work you want to do on the house, and this is probably one of them.

Louise
And the other element that’s really important to us is what I would call future proofing the house from an environmental and thermal performance element. So it’s a typical 100 year old house with lots of drafts, and hot water is gas, and most of our cooking is gas, our ducted heating is gas, so we’re wanting to fully electrify the house and get some solar panels, and really bring it up to standard in terms of thermal performance, and make it a much healthier home. Myself and my daughter, in particular, suffer from eczema and lots of different allergies and hay fever, and I’ve actually really noticed the difference moving from this house from our previous house of how this house, in particular, just exacerbates it.

Amelia Lee
Oh, isn’t that interesting? So that’s another motivator, isn’t it, to get this done and create that healthy environment for yourselves? And that quandary of whether you go up or you go out is also a common one, and I totally hear you in that debate about you love the garden, you love the land, and the block size was one of the reasons that you bought the property, and creating that indoor outdoor flow. I love that you’re thinking how can you be clever about the spaces so that they’re working really hard for you, that you’ve got that adaptability and functionality.  

At no point did you say to me, “We want four bedrooms, two bathrooms, we want two living spaces.” You are actually describing to me how the house needs to function, and what your vision is for how it connects and flows, and separates the zones of living and sleeping, and those kinds of things. So, it’s great because it helps you get a lot of clarity about what you’re really seeking to achieve. And at the same time, it gives a designer or an architect a lot of scope to be able to explore what options might be available, when they’re also trying to align that with your budget, with the local planning requirements, with minimising the footprint, and what you’ll need to do in terms of budgeting to upgrade the thermal performance of the house. 

And one of the things about the California bungalows is their lovely ground hugging kind of homes. And so I can imagine it feels a little bit counterintuitive to add a second story to it, because probably what you fell in love with architecturally is that it’s this lovely horizontal form that feels like it’s really earthed. 

So there are some successful second story additions, where they are set back from the front elevation so that you still do get that impression of the home and its original features. Yours, in particular, has got those angled columns out the front and the lovely, very traditional features in terms of that design. And so I think you’ve got lots of scope too, because you’ve got that north to rear yard. If you had a south to rear yard, you’d be having to worry about everything overshadowing your backyard and from the house. But because you’ve got a north to rear yard, you do have that opportunity to consider how could you go up. And if it can work with the architecture at the front of the home and not overwhelm it, can you do that in a way then that it won’t overshadow your yard because of the orientation? And then how will it work in terms of costs and performance and all of those kinds of things? 

And I know that you’ve been working through HOME Method so you’ve looked at the idea of bolt on extensions, as well. So that opportunity of whether the interior spaces can be reconfigured to satisfy all of the sleeping and nighttime functions of the home, and then the living zones actually get plugged on to the back of the house as a free standing pavilion that gets attached back into the home. So that, of course, is another opportunity to explore. And yeah, it’s really lovely to hear how you’re thinking about it. Now, I know you did a renovation, you mentioned in the onboarding forms and in our conversations prior to this chat that you did a renovation and that went well. And you said that you are aware that there are still so many things that you don’t know.  

So what have you been nervous about with this project and with thinking about how you’re going to embark on it? And of course, then making the investment in HOME Method, getting that extra help before you start, what’s been your thinking and your concerns about navigating this project and getting started on it?

Zane
I think we’ve had good and not good experiences in working with builders in the past, and we did a little extension on our previous home, and then we did a larger renovation to follow. The two experiences were kind of chalk and cheese in our enjoyment of the experience. I think the quality of the output was good both times, but we definitely noticed a difference just in the way we were working with our team. And at that stage, really, it was just a builder and their team, we didn’t really assemble the team around ourselves. And I think in that instance, as well, with the smaller land size, we knew we didn’t want to over capitalise on our little semi detached, we had a much clearer vision of what it looked like. And that helped us dictate in a way these are the rooms, this is where there’ll be, this is how we want it done. And we worked with the draftsperson to draw that up, and what we had hoped for. 

I think the lingering thought there is what could have it been. We only know what we know. We’re not architects, we’re not designers. So I think this time around, we’ve just been much more interested in determining how we want to use the home and what we want it to feel like, and being the vision casters in that way to say, “We’ll set the brief that this needs to be our home.” And from there, if this is how we’re choosing to use it and the way that we want our lifestyle to be reflected in the place we live, then we want to then offer that to our team and say how could it be done within a budget because there’s probably 10 how’s. And we’re really interested to get that expertise this time around. 

So I think the concerns, just because it’s such a big undertaking of time and energy and effort, is primarily at the moment, just the right team, just making sure that we do surround ourselves with people who whether it’s to do with the feel of the home, our desire for sustainability, our desire for maintaining nature and heritage, we just want to make sure that we get it right to begin with, and we’ve got like minded people at the table. So I think beyond that, very natural concerns that I’m sure everyone has around, is your ambition for what you’d love from a design and aesthetic point of view beyond your budget? And how do you embark on that sensibly or reasonably to say, if we have that right team and we can have those open conversations upfront with all of the right people there early on, how do you pick and choose the areas that you’re actually quite happy to skimp on? And the areas that you’re more rigid on? So yeah, I think these early days, if there were two categories, it’s just let’s choose the right team. And let’s make sure that we’re not delusional with what we can achieve.

Louise
Yeah, the budget. Yeah, there’s the other layer in the back of our mind that, as a family, we’re actually, in the next few years, about to enter quite an expensive part of life because the kids are at a government school for primary school, and the plan is that they stay there until year six, but then they go to private school. So that’s going to be a big whack to the finances. And if the timeline of this build goes the way that we are planning it to go, we’ll be practically doubling our mortgage and going into private school fee mode. 

I think that’s nerve racking, so we need to make sure that we’re comfortable with that, and that we’re getting it right, and we’re not spending beyond our means.

Amelia Lee
And so what have you been doing to nut out what you think you can spend on this project, and how you’re going to feel comfortable about then briefing your team with what that amount is? Plus your capacity for that to potentially change, should you be weighing up your priorities versus what you want to spend as you go? What exercises are you going through personally to figure that out?

Louise
Yeah, so the first thing we did was, we’ve got a financial advisor that’s done a few scenarios for us, and so we’re speaking to him and he’s doing that mapping for us. He’s, thankfully, reasonably conservative. So whatever figures he gives us back, we can probably push him a little bit, I think. And maybe that can be the pushing in terms of our contingency. So that’s one part of the equation, and then the other part of the equation is we spoke to our mortgage broker. And we’ve got them going off, and actually getting an understanding from them on how much the bank would actually lend us.  

So we want to understand our maximum borrowing capacity from a finance point of view, but then understanding, “Okay, if that’s our maximum, then what should we actually be spending given all of our other requirements?” So we’re hopefully going to marry those two and find a happy middle ground.

Amelia Lee
Have you had a chance to have a look at any of the real estate values in the area and see what the final sale price would look like for a renovated home that you’re envisaging, to see what that benchmark is as well?

Zane
Yeah, particularly Lou has this passion for looking at other people’s houses. So it’s not unusual on a Saturday, we pack the kids up and just go and look at Open For Inspections. I think that helped. That’s part of our design research too.

Amelia Lee
Did you do that with a tape measure? You’d be a HOME Method member if you did.

Zane
Yeah, the kids are used to it now. They’ll ask whether it’s auction day, or if it’s just home open. So I think that helps a lot, it gives us a really good sense of comparable properties in the area. I think that’s probably the bit that calms my nerves, when you start to think about money, that we’re not looking to complete this and immediately sell. This is our home. So that might adjust the way you make certain choices, because it’s about the way we want to live. But we’re equally very confident, particularly in the maintenance of the heritage of the home, that what we’re building is equally an asset. We don’t generally think about it that way, but it is. So that makes me less fearful.  

Because as long as you can spend within your daily means and not put yourself under too much duress, what we’re ultimately doing is adding value to something that’s already a great asset. And don’t have that ultimate theory that we’re eating baked beans every day, I think we’ll be okay. But I still want to be conscientious, I guess is the way we’re viewing it.

Amelia Lee
Yeah, that’s great. I think it’s step five of HOME Method is that real estate check. Because I think when you’re starting out, most people are trying to figure out what’s the most amount of money they can afford without it financially crippling them. And then if they’re financing, it’s like, “What is the most amount of money that the bank will actually give us?” And the bank will assess that based on values of local real estate anyway, they’ll obviously look at your income, but they won’t lend you more than what the property will be worth. So it is a really valuable exercise. 

And I love that you’re also using it for design research, because it’s very easy then to say, what do we like? What do we not like? What do we know will be something that we may not want to include because it doesn’t suit us, but that might impact how this property might sell down the track? And so we can factor that into how a bank might look at the value of it. And also, if we did have to sell this property sooner than we anticipated, how is it going to be differentiated so that it positions really well for sale as well? So I think it’s really great. And I do think the real estate agents just get to know you, get to see your face. They know where you live, they know you’re not selling anytime soon, and they know that their success in business relies on them having good relationships with the local community, so they very much are open to that.  

Now, you actually joined HOME Method in the middle of last year, so you’ve been in there for a little while. I think you’ve been living in the house for about 12 months when you joined, I think from memory, and so you’d obviously made a concerted decision that you’re going to invest in your learning before hiring a team member. Is there a reason why you did that choice rather than I know some other people think, “Oh, look, I just need to find my architect or my building designer first, and then I’ll think about whether or not I need extra education.” What was your thinking in terms of the order in which you’ve made these choices?

Louise
Yeah, well, I’ve been listening to the podcast for probably six to twelve months before we joined, and just learning a lot through the podcast, finding it really interesting. As I said, when we bought this house, we knew we bought it with the view that we would renovate. But we wanted to live in it first for at least a couple of years just to get to know the house and know the things we loved and we wanted to change and, I think importantly, we want to really do this well. 

And we know that once you jump on the train of engaging an architect, that it just runs from there. It’s really hard to stop and pause at that point. So there’s two main reasons really, we wanted to make sure that we’ve done enough research and know enough about the build before we actually press that go button, and HOME Method just seems like a really good way to do that, a really good way to learn as much as we can, and understand how to have those conversations with each other, and what kinds of conversations we need to have with each other, and what decisions we need to make before we press the go button, and it’s been perfect for that. It’s been absolutely perfect. Because Zane’s background is in marketing, so he’s really good at the Miro boards. We’ve got one of those going.

Amelia Lee
I love it. That’s like a mind mapping tool, isn’t it? Like, is that how you’re using it?

Zane
I think one of the real benefits has been… We knew we had time anyway, we weren’t ready financially, as Lou said, we wanted to live in the house. So with that time, we thought, and I don’t know if we knew this at the start, but the real benefit of doing this together… Whether it’s Tuesday or Wednesday, we sit down at the same time each week, we go through the modules, we build the Miro board, and particularly that early pre-design, thinking about your priorities and your vision, it’s pretty good at working out where you’re aligned and where you’re not. And it just gives you a chance to have those conversations early on and say, “Oh, I was imagining this. And I was considering that.” And then typically, we’ll go away, there might be some bonus material or podcasts or something, we’ll go away, do individual thinking and come back again. 

And all of that, Lou found this and because of her just in between watching architecture shows and gardening shows, but I think when it was first proposed, I thought, “Well, for the cost of being engaged and being involved, if it can avoid one bad decision, or aid in one good decision, it’s immediately paid for itself.” So it just felt to me like such a significant purchase in your life. Why wouldn’t you get as much help as you can? That’s why we probably got on board.

Louise
Yeah. And also, I really wanted to just get started. And we knew that we weren’t ready financially, we still needed probably 12 to 18 months of saving to be able to afford what we wanted to do, so this helped in us feeling like we were actually progressing this build without actually having to make any firm decisions. So yeah, it’s been great in that regard.

Zane
Yeah. And I don’t need to be an expert in any of these fields. And I know that by doing a course like this, you don’t become an expert, but if you can at least arm yourself with the right questions at the right time, and how to be curious in respectful ways. Everyone wants to be respected in their roles, and often, when you hear people talk about builds, they’re complaining about this trade or that trade or this person. I think what we also wanted to do was just work out how can we be respectful of their craft, they do this every day, we do this three times in our lives, at most, so part of it was about just how do we not be frustrating, annoying homeowners asking silly questions at the wrong time or too late, or backing ourselves into corners we can’t come out from because we weren’t educated.

Louise
Yeah, and that one last thing on this is we’re really busy. So we both work full time, and we’ve got small kids. So we actually wanted to front load a lot of the work, a lot of the decisions, and a lot of the thinking actually, before we press the go button, because we just knew that that would be a lot easier to actually get through the build when the build’s happening, because you know, there’s 200 billion decisions you need to make once it starts.

Amelia Lee
I think it’s really exciting to hear you talk because it’s the very reason that HOME Method exists. Because that thing that you talk about, that you wanted to get started, and what people do when they feel that is they often just go, “Well then, I just need to hire somebody. I just need to hire the architect or the builder or the designer or the company that’s going to help me do this.” And then they step into that project process not having equipped themselves with that knowledge and information. And so instead, the fact that you’ve chosen to not pull the trigger, but instead, to use this time whilst you’re getting your other ducks in a row of finances and things like that. So that every decision that you’re making from here on in is actually productive, methodical, moving you in the right direction. And it’s not just this random research that you’re grappling together, whilst you wait to make that getting started decision. 

And I love the idea that there’s a Miro board, because it’s really interesting to see how people’s brains think differently. When you’re teaching people this content, you package it up in lots of different ways, because everybody has different learning styles. But then I always love speaking to HOME Method members to see how are they individually applying it. Because you’re building the Miro board, I’ve had other people who’ve literally done the slide presentation of everything, there’s so many different ways that people then make it their own. And so it’s really awesome.  

And it’s a common thing that I hear that it can be really tricky to get on the same page as each other. So I really love that you shared how that’s been working for you, because those are the arguments that a lot of people are often having in front of their professional team, and then it stalls a project. Somebody always doesn’t feel heard or supported in that process, because they haven’t worked that out before they got there. And so I love that you guys have navigated how are you going to get on the same page, and understand what those differences might be so that you can come together in this project in a way that’s going to work for you. So I really appreciate you sharing that in so much detail, I think it’s going to be really helpful for a lot of people to hear that. Now, you mentioned that you’re thinking about who you’re going to hire, and this decision about choosing a team member, can you talk me through what you’re doing to identify that? Because, obviously, you’ve got your goals about what you want to do in terms of protecting the home’s aesthetic and heritage appearance, you’ve got goals in terms of the livability of the home and how it needs to function over time, and then you’ve got goals in terms of the thermal performance of the home and upgrading it, so as you said, Louise, you’re future proofing it from a climatic point of view.  

So what’s been your process in terms of looking at potential designers and architects to work with, and sifting and filtering who you think it might be worthwhile reaching out to? And then also, what you’re doing to prepare for those initial conversations as well?

Louise
Yeah, this has been really difficult, actually. Because it’s really hard to know where to start. Like everybody else, we’ve asked others who have recently done renovations, “Were you happy with your architecture? Are you happy with your builder?” All those kinds of things. Most of the research we’ve done has been through social media, which probably isn’t ideal. But I don’t really know what else to do.

Amelia Lee
It’s very common, yeah. And I think architects and building designers don’t realise, which, if you’re in marketing design, you must look at it and say, “So could you just actually up your marketing game so we can get to know you?”

Zane
We listened to one video, they were talking about transparency. Transparency doesn’t equal trust, just because people are showing you lots of things and telling you lots of things, it doesn’t. 

Amelia Lee
Yeah, that’s very true.

Zane
It doesn’t mean that’s the product that you’ll ultimately receive. I think learning about PAC Process as well. And then, just within our networks, we have builders and architects, and you start to float some of those ideas just to see it and test them. And if we’ve got a particular approach, it doesn’t have to be to the letter PAC. But how do you find people who are appreciative of the way that you want to go about to build? So there’s that philosophy upfront. How do you find people who philosophically are going to sign up to the way you’d like to collaborate? And that doesn’t jump out of social media or websites. So at some point, I think we’ll just need to start meeting people. So if there was categories, one is links through people we know. Others we’re just seeing great work and thinking, “I wonder if we’d be able to work in partnership with these people, because what they’ve done clearly demonstrates that we think a similar way.” And then others, we’re just actually looking at who is already aware of and practising PAC Process because that would be a really great starting point. And we probably are thinking architect first in the sense of we will equally have builders. And we had a great experience with our previous builder so they’d be in our shortlist. But equally, to sit down with your architect and say, as you said, “Here’s the three categories of things that are really important to us. We would hope they would say, if that’s your passion, then I know the right team to get around you and those networks.”

Louise
Yeah, for example, we’ve looked at the builders that are accredited through Live Life Build, and looked at the ones that are local to our area, and then looked on their social media, and then they tend to have good partnerships with a handful of architects. So you just keep following the trail of connections, I guess. So we’ve probably got a shortlist of maybe three or four architects at the moment. We’ve only reached out to one so far, but haven’t had any meetings. But it’s just that initial step, because as I was saying before, pressing the go button, once you press that go button, you’re on. So I’m feeling a little bit nervous about making that first step and starting on the train.

Zane
I hear starting is one thing, I don’t feel like you’re really locked until you’ve signed a contract. So for me, it’s that kind of working together. And I think part of your question was around preparing. It was really good just to sit down and fill out the brief template, because that makes it real. Even in my line of work, you’re only often as good as the quality of the brief. So our previous build, we didn’t actually write a brief, we just sat and had a discussion. And it was lengthy, but that probably loops all the way back to why we are where we are. It’s just around the corner, that’s why I keep nodding that way… We loved our previous home and what we achieved with it, but we equally know the mistakes we made.  

And some of them we knew when we were in the house, and some of them we knew as we’ve been through HOME Method as well. We’ll get to a module and go, “Oh, we did that. We made that mistake.” I think, at the moment, we’re just starting to accumulate all of this knowledge, but it is at a point where we need to make that step and build the team around us. So ideally, we’d love to be breaking ground in January next year, so there’s a bit of time, but it disappears quickly too.

RESOURCES:

Access the support and guidance you need (like Louise and Zane are) to be confident and empowered when renovating and building your family home inside my flagship online program, HOME METHOD >>> https://undercoverarchitect.com/courses/the-home-method/

Learn more about how to interview and select the right builder with the Choose Your Builder mini-course >>> https://undercoverarchitect.com/courses/choose-your-builder 

Access my free online workshop “Your Project Plan” >>> https://undercoverarchitect.com/projectplan